INT: How have Director changed since your first directing job, and if so, how?

AH: Yes, it's changed a lot and basically because of the Directors Guild of America [DGA]. Because it's changed, we've got Creative Rights that we didn't have before. And it's changed with the studios and the production companies here, and it's changed in Washington [Washington, D.C.], because of lobbying there and of fighting for artists' rights, and so the position, we have... well not just Creative Rights, but our work rights are in the sense of the number of hours that are worked or the working conditions and the minimum wages. All those things have been just so improved by the Directors Guild, and have meant so much to how Directors are perceived across the country, or around the world. And I think that's helped also by a lot of the foreign Directors. When the auteur group came about, they brought attention to the Director, and "droits moraux," the rights in Europe of the Director, an artistic person not having their work changed without their permission. So our fighting for all these things, and the DGA, in a sense, really coming through for us in so many of the areas, and even the PR work done by the Directors Guild, all these things have enhanced what a Director is, in terms of people outside, but also have made it easier for us to do our work, to spend our time on creativity and not on fighting over little... I shouldn't say little, because they're the things that affect us, but that take away from that chance to be creative. [INT: Has the perception of the role of the Director changed throughout your career, in this way, you think?] Well I think that's what I was saying there. [INT: Yeah.]

INT: When was the first time you heard of the DGA or joined the DGA? Do you remember?

AH: I became part of the DGA, I'm not even sure of the year, but it was somewhere about 1960, I think, when the Radio and Television Guild [Radio and Television Directors Guild] amalgamated with the Screen Directors Guild [SDG], and it all became the Directors Guild of America [DGA] then. So in a sense I just sort of eased in to the Guild. [INT: Do you remember who... I guess you didn't have a sponsor then, or didn't have, because you were already a part of the television group.] Yeah. [INT: So that was...] Didn't need... [INT: When you joined the Directors Guild, who were the notable Directors active in the Guild at that time?] When I joined the Guild, there still were some of the original people who created the Guild. King Vidor was still, really was active. Rouben Mamoulian was active. And some, I guess, who may not have been in at the actual beginning, but Frank Capra was still active. And people like George Sidney and Robert Wise and Delbert Mann. People that I admired so much were working, and George Cukor, were involved in many aspects of the Guild. And it just always bowled me over, particularly when I think back to that original group of 13, who sat down and in a sense they didn't need a Guild. Each one of them was in a position where they could make good deals and look after his own sort of working conditions and that, but they cared. They cared about their fellow Directors. They cared about filmmaking. And what I like about the Guild is that it still retains that quality, over all these years. When I sit on the council [Western Directors Council] or on the National Board or on committees, I love being with people who care. Who still are caring about their fellow Directors, about the Assistant Directors, about all of us in the Guild. And you know, when I see what's been done in terms of, well of Creative Rights, and of working conditions, I mean what we have in the way of a health plan and pension plan, just, you know, unbelievable that we have such assistance. Or the benevolent foundation [Directors Guild Foundation], or even things like Special Projects. And when I think of committees that I've been on, like when we first got into women's rights, and into minority rights, and set up those committees, how the councils, how we worked on those situations. Well I've served 20 years on the Creative Rights Negotiating team [Creative Rights Negotiating Committee], which was basically run by Elliot Silverstein, but look at all the accomplishments over that time. With Elliot's strong lead, and the rest of us, you know, working at it. And I can even remember that when I was president, I was chairing the particular meeting, where we got the Creative Right where the Producers agreed to, when a film is changed when it's on television, when it's been edited or panned or scanned, that they would put on that little notice that says, "This has been changed from the original." You know, just there are a lot of exciting moments in those terms.

INT: You even took that [Creative Rights] to Washington [Washington, D.C.] as well, right? With the rights of artists and film preservation.

AH: I have strong feelings about Artist Rights. Well I was the founding Chairman of the Artists Rights Foundation [The Film Foundation]. And we spent a lot of time in Washington, fighting for legislation to protect all Artists. Then we had to narrow it down a little and sort of do it within our own industry, and hopefully then to spread it more. But we were there, many of us, and I can remember speaking before, you know, congressional committees in terms of what we needed or Marty Scorsese [Martin Scorsese] showing them a little film that showed what happens when you colorize and that. Or Sydney Pollack and Milos Forman and Woody Allen presenting, you know, strong viewpoints. And I think those things all helped and all made a difference, and that's what brought about… We didn't get what we wanted in terms of Artist Rights, but what did come out of it in sort of the various compromises and that, was the national film heritage, the National Film Preservation Board. And I am still our, I’ve been for many years, our representative on the National Film Preservation Board, which really works hard to bring about the preservation of all films, and has preservation vaults, and we have done tours with the films that have been put into the heritage, so to speak, you know, 25 films a year are selected. We, on the board, nominate or suggest films and discuss and argue sometimes. But to try and find a variety, so we're not saying these are the best films, but they're representative of the American heritage. After all, movies are the 20th century art form. They are our cultural heritage, and that's what people can look back and see what we were like. And I think we've done so much, you know, in that area. And we're still, you know, working away at it. And actually just this past year, I feel pleased because I'm chairman of the Preservation Committee at the Guild [DGA]. We worked out a conservation plan with the producers association [Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers]. And it took a year or two to get it worked out, but we [DGA-Motion Picture Industry Conservation Collection] have now, where every film that is made under DGA contract, a copy, when they do their prints, one clean print will go to UCLA [UCLA Film and Television Archive], to the vaults. The studios or companies are responsible for the cost of the copy. The Directors Guild is responsible for the cost of the upkeep, and obviously we have rules and regulations about when it can be shown, or there has to be agreement. But we all came together, the studios, you know, the Motion Picture Association [MPAA], the Directors Guild, and UCLA, and we worked it out. It took time, and it just... so that if some day when they're looking and for whatever reason, the head of a studio changes and says, "I don't care about preservation," and they throw out films, and suddenly you're looking for an old film and you find pieces of it, there will be a copy. There will at least be one positive that they can use in restructuring, or bringing it back. All these things are... One of my most exciting moments at the Guild was when I announced that we did have this now signed conservation agreement at a meeting. And everybody applauded. I went into tears. It was exciting. Yeah. [INT: That's so great. It would be wonderful to have such a thing for the past.] Yeah. [INT: For all the movies that have been lost and cut up.] Ah, when you think of how many films are just not available, you know, what, 80 percent of the films before 1950, there's just, there's nothing.

INT: Can you describe any other Guild [DGA] related events or celebrations, meetings that have been particularly memorable or meaningful to you?

AH: There have been a lot of memorable and happy moments at the Guild. I felt… well, sad sometimes. I was chairman or whatever you want to call it of a couple of tributes to dear friends who'd passed away that we did to Marty Ritt [Martin Ritt] and Franklin Schaffner [Franklin J. Schaffner], who were both wonderful Directors and just terrific guys who just worked so hard, you know, cared about the Guild and were on the council [Western Directors Council], and Franklin was president. But aside from that, they were just good guys who cared. So those were memorable moments. And some a little more amusing I guess. I was... When we had our 50th anniversary, and we celebrated our big anniversary, and we honored Fellini [Federico Fellini] on the East Coast, and Kurosawa [Akira Kurosawa] on the West Coast, and I hosted the evening for Kurosawa. And I'm not even remembering which film we ran, but it was open to the public in the old DGA building. At the beginning, I announced to the audience that they were seeing the film, and then afterwards that John Huston would present this special award [Golden Jubilee Special Award] to Kurosawa. Then in the boardroom, about 40 or 50 of us, I've forgotten, had dinner with Kurosawa. About six tables I guess of maybe 60 people, 10, you know, at a table. And I was, needless to say, at the table with Kurosawa and Huston and I thought, I'd prepared a toast, because I thought that's going to be right, but I got a Japanese toast, and I had it written out phonetically. You know, I got it from Japanese, obviously written out then into Japanese and then translated in phonetically. And when I got up to deliver it, my assistant had typed it out. Normally I write these things in heavy black ink on paper, and this was very light and also the lighting wasn't that good in the boardroom where we were having it. And I'm doing this toast and I'm having trouble. I was not doing it too well, and I was becoming more and more embarrassed. And finally I was asking Kurosawa's interpreter for help, and she was helping me. Just somehow I was still, it was going bad. And then Paul Mazursky made some kind of joke, you know. And then pretty soon a couple of more jokes are going, you know. And I'm still struggling, and finally Kurosawa was helping me do my toast to him in Japanese and I'm doing away, doing my toast, and finally I finish the toast. And the jokes kept on. But at least it let me say, you know, "All right," I said, "How many of you in this room can say that you have been directed by Akira Kurosawa?" It just worked out so well.

AH: And that was at the time when John Huston was in a wheelchair, and he had to have oxygen with him and mostly was wearing the mask, even at dinner [at the DGA 50th Anniversary celebration]. And when we went into the, back into the theater after the film was over, when I was introducing him, and I see him, I could see him in the wings on the other side in the wheelchair and with the mask, and I thought, "How is he going to do this?" And it was just about the time of PRIZZI'S HONOR, ‘cause I remember I ended my intro of him and saying, "And now Anjelica Huston's father, John." And I see John take that mask off, and pushed himself up out of the chair, walk the three steps over, hung on to the podium, did the presentation to Kurosawa [Akira Kurosawa], and then I watched him as Kurosawa was then speaking. Back to his chair, and see him get in it. I can't tell you how moving it was to see that. He provided me with another memorable moment in Artists' Rights, when he made that wonderful speech, that we still use in our little film and that we comment all the time. But I can still remember him sitting at the table, as it was being taped and making it, and how we were all moved by it and how, you know, how much it meant. And to think, you see that all these very successful Directors like Huston and like the old ones I mentioned, Vidor [King Vidor], and you know, the group who started, and Capra [Frank Capra]... that they cared about other people. They cared about their Guild, and that's what still goes on. When I sit on committees with caring people who care about our dignity, who care about our conditions, about all the people in the Guild, it's a very satisfying... That's done a lot for me, just in terms of my life, and not even talking about my career, but just what the DGA can mean to you in life terms. [INT: That's great.]

INT: Can you talk about your presidency [at the DGA] and some of the highlights of those years? You moved into this building during that time, right?

AH: No, we were already in. [INT: Were you?] I took over the presidency after Franklin Schaffner [Franklin J. Schaffner] passed away. And to be honest, I was not comfortable. It was very hard for me. It was too emotional. We were talking about being president of the Academy [AMPAS], or maybe we weren't, but I was also, I later became president of the Academy. And I found that fine. Hard work, but not emotionally draining. At the Directors Guild, you're dealing with people's livelihood. If they got a job, do they have a pension plan? Do they have benefits when they need them? Do they have residuals? You know, these are all difficult things, and you know, you make a decision sometimes, and it's good for 9,000 people and it isn't good for three people, and you think, "What have I done to those three people?" And you have...but you have to do it. See, at the Academy, you make a decision good for 5,000. It's not good for 15, you think, "So what?" It doesn't hurt them. It's not sort of their livelihood or something they're dependent on. So, I found it very draining and yet, very satisfying obviously, because we moved ahead in terms of artist rights, of working conditions. Of you know, actually bringing even the East and the West of our Guild together, because there had been some feeling of hurt on the East Coast that, "Why should it be the West?" You know, that sort of thing.

INT: And during your presidency [at DGA], I think the contracts were negotiated with the studios far in advance, weren't they, to...which kept the town working, no slow downs. Is there anything...?

AH: During... just in the time before I was... I'm trying to remember whether Gil [Gil Cates] was president or Franklin [Franklin J. Schaffner] was president. I think Gil was, wasn't it, during, when we had our 20 minutes of strike? [INT: Right, right. It was Gil.] It was a very hard period then, and so what we tried to do in the time that I was president was to start early negotiations and try and work out the big problems. You know, get ourselves on, sort of, early footing. And I still remember sitting down to lunch with Jeffrey Katzenberg, who was head of the Creative Rights sort of group on the other side. Or on the negotiating, I guess, on the other side, because I remember I said, "Jeffrey, the only thing, before we start," I said, "The only thing I can say to you, please don't raise any question about residuals, 'cause I just, I will not, we can not pull back on that. Anything else we can get into discussion." And we discussed many things, and actually did work out a settlement so that business could continue and people could keep working. And yet, there was happiness on both sides. We each felt we had negotiated well. But I don't know whether you luck into that, the timing or who's talking to who or what, but... [INT: Well you have an ability to bring people together.] Well, but that was true on both sides. Everybody was willing. I think there really was a willingness on both our parts, on the Motion Picture Association [MPAA] and on the DGA, to fairly try and work out a deal.

INT: And also while you were president [at the DGA], didn't the diversity reports, were they, was that when it began? Annual women's report…

AH: I don't know if the diversity reports began while I was president, but certainly the setting up of the women's committee [Women’s Steering Committee] and the minority committees started way back, years before. Now I know I was involved in the setting up of each of those committees. We did set up the Hispanic one [Latino Committee] during my term, but we did have a minority one. And we did set up programs of trying to reach out to the studios. You know, and I'm not sure when the diversity reports began, but they did show improvement during my period as president but not enough. I don't think we got... And it's still a problem. Yes, there's certainly a lot more women working and there's certainly a lot more, you know, of the African American community, Hispanic community. Yes, the Guild has done wonderful work and we keep at it. I wish we could do better, but in a sense, I wish we could do better in other areas. But on a whole, the Guild... I keep feeling has just done, you know, terrific work in... Well, I guess if you asked me, you know, if somebody new was saying, "Why should I join the Directors Guild?" or something. I think the one word I would say would be “support”. The Guild supports you. It really, it helps you do your job in the best way you can. Or sometimes people complain about, "Gee, initiation fee is high." I say, "Look what you're paying for." Look at over the years the health plan, you know, the pension plan, the minimum wage, all the work conditions, all those, everything that has been done. I'm not even talking about Special Projects or having a lovely building and showing films. You know, all those, the programs, the tributes, I'm not even talking about that. I'm just talking to keep you where you can do your best work. I think that's been so important over the years. [INT: That's great.]

INT: Did you also work on the ratings system during that period of time, during your presidency [at the DGA]? I thought that was just--

AH: We didn't do anything particular on the ratings system that I recall during… I'm not saying-- [INT: You were an advocate as I recall.] I'm sorry? [INT: You were an advocate for the change of the ratings so that studios would be more open to adult material. Or things that were not...] I don't think we were trying to make too many changes in the ratings system during my tenure. It's happened in a couple of tenures, I think also during my tenure, though, where we were reaching to open up a little more, so that there'd be a freedom to do more adult films and call them adult films, fine. And changes were made, actually, because we weren't the only ones. There were Artists all across, I think in all the guilds, who were trying for that. And those changes came about; it doesn't seem to have quite worked. But I feel that the ratings system overall does work. It is what it's supposed to do. It's supposed to inform the viewer the kind of film they're going to see, or that they're letting their children see, or not letting their children see. At least gives them something to base their thinking on. I often say to people when they say, "Oh, you know, there are no good movies and any of this." I pick up the newspaper, and I will point to certain films and say, "Have you seen this film?" "Oh no, no." I say, "Well then you haven't done your homework. Because these are wonderful films." Yes, I think there are some films I've spoken out, I can't tell you how many times, against excessive violence and gratuitous sex, which I think is very disturbing, and I think can have an effect on people, but I've spoken out just as strongly for free speech. I think still a filmmaker as long as it's not directed right at the youth market or something, the freedom of the filmmaker to make the kind of film they want to make. But I think there is a... we have a moral responsibility to try, and we can open doors to problems. I don't say we can solve them, but we can get people thinking about them. And we can, well I always say if I had my druthers, I would do... all my films would be vastly entertaining and have something worthwhile to say. Now that's not always possible, and it's hard. But I think I can say that every one of my films at least has an affirmation of the human spirit, that at least there's a positiveness about it. And I think we need more films in that direction. I think more stories that carry moral values. But I don't think we can dictate to people what they make, but I just feel everybody should be aware of the impact that we have on an audience. I mean that's our whole point that we want to... we make a film to reach an audience, not just visually but emotionally, to have feelings and why not reach for positive feelings more? [INT: That's great.]